Black Diamond Quadrant and Prime Efficient Series Boots.
Over the last few months, I have been spending quite a bit of time skiing and touring on next year’s Black Diamond Efficient Series ski boots. I have been on the 4-buckle Quadrants since November, and more recently I got my hands on some 3-buckle Primes about a month ago. I’ve been able to get the 27 sample size to work with some extra “shimmage”, even though I’m a true 26.5…which is the next shell size smaller.
First off, I must say that the downhill performance of these boots is mind-blowing…especially with the 3-buckle Prime, rated at 110 flex, compared to the 120 flex of the Quadrants. I can easily see the Prime replacing some 4-buckle boots out there next year since it skis so well, and with a projected weight of 7lb 4oz (27), it will sure make the gram counters happy as well. The Quadrant comes in 6oz heavier at 7lbs 10oz. and feels just about as stiff as the Factor. Both have a more voluminous fit than the Factor/Method as well.
Quadrant and Prime cuff range of motion.
Overall, the shells of both the Quadrant and Prime are made out of Pebax, and are the same dimensions and height. While the Quadrant and Prime don’t have a rando-racing amount of rearward travel when in walk-mode, I’ve found them to have about as much as other comparable boots out there (if not more), and plenty to make touring on the flats comfortable. What is amazing is the amount of forward travel they have and 40 degrees of travel in all, due to the Triax Pivot on the cuff. Black Diamond calls the Prime a 3.5 buckle boot, since the single buckle on the lower cuff attaches and clamps down from two separate points.
Lower buckle positions.
One of the simplest new designs I like about these boots is the mechanics of the second buckle, which locks wide-open, while staying in the slot you want it to with the help of some hooked teeth. I’ve been told that production models will have this buckle on both the 1st and 2nd buckle…instead of just the second buckle like these test boots. Gone are those pesky tabs that hold your buckle when they are unbuckled, and always seem to break after a month or two out on the skin track.
These hooks work great at holding unbuckled buckles in place.
Both the Prime and the Quadrant have thermo-moldable tongue style liners and are lasted to provide a good out-of-the-box fit, as well as having very prominent Achilles pads that really help to hold your heel down when skinning and skiing. While the Prime’s that I’ve been using don’t have the BOA system like the Quadrant, I’ve been told the production model will indeed come with a new light weight BOA 
system…like the Quadrants. The new BOA tightens with less twists and uses a lightweight spectra-like cable instead of a metal cable. Both boots have a new and improved liner construction, are warmer and provide more padding than past BD liners…a nice improvement.
Plenty of thick rubber on the soles.
With the construction of the Quadrant and Prime, BD has been able to shave weight, yet keep performance at a premium. BD doesn’t skimp on the soles however (often a frequent, yet poor place to save weight) and both boots have a thick amount of rubber. Although I had to send back my original pair of Quadrants that I abused on Aconcagua (so I don’t have a photo), the soles held up well to lots of walking and scrambling on rocks and boulders….more than I can say for other lightweight boots out there. Another place BD has saved weight is with the buckle design. Made 
with geometrically shaped cages and swedged buckles, these micro adjustable Quickwire buckles are ultra-light…even compared to magnesium buckles. In addition, all of BD boots come with a boot-board to help with custom fitting. The ones in the Prime and Quadrant are made out of hard foam, which is much different and lighter than the rubbery style ones that come in their Power Series boots.
I’ve had no problems with the ski/walk modes, and the forward lean adjustment has two settings which I believe are at 18/14 degrees. Both the Prime and Quadrant have a nice gusset that seals out snow, wind and the cold from creeping into the spaces in the overlapping cuff down by the lower two buckles.
It’s always interesting to see what products I’m am excited about for next year and even though I’ve been skiing these boots for a while now, I’m still really psyched for more time on them next year. Especially in a pair in my proper size. Check them out for next year at SkiBD.com!
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I got to demo some of the Prime’s at this years Big LePowski in Brighton……I can’t wait to buy a pair. The 3 buckle works just as well as my current 4-buckle Spirit 4’s and feels stiffer…yet walks a TON better. One thing I did find however is that the flex is not as progressive as I would have liked….or am used to…but by the end of the day, I had adjusted and am certainly looking forward to the weight savings for the same performance on the down….and better performance on the up.
So would you pick the Prime or the Quadrant if you only had one Steve?
surfer…i guess if i wanted a one boot quiver…i would go with the quadrant. i prefer having a two boot quiver though, a beefy boot and lightweight option, so my choice would be something like the factor…AND the prime.
maadjurguer…i’m wondering if the primes you tried had the BOA liners??? i’ve found that the non-BOA liners are actually lower in height than those with the BOA. Though not as stiff as the liner that comes with the quadrant, the BOA liners that will come with the production primes will for sure beef up and make them ski better than the samples…maybe making them feel more progressive.
My two minor requests would be to have the step-in toe fitting and have the toe fitting moved back 6mm like some Scarpa boots. These are very minor issues compared to fit obviously… when will the masses be able to try these on? September-ish?
Not to be picky but first paragraph when you cite weights I think you typed Prime when you meant Quadrant. p.s. I want those boots!
brent..i’m all for making them tour better…so having the front pins further back would be nice. but i’m not sure the need for the ‘Quick Step” pins…since it would increase the price as well. i’m not allowed to say exactly how much they will cost right now…but the prices of these boots should be very attractive…especially the primes.
you may be able to try or check them out now if you attend the right events/demos. besides that…yeah…more likely next fall trying them on in the shops.
arg…thanks ted. can’t fix it until tonight.
Nice review Steve. Recently picked up some Titans – man I love those boots. A bit heavier than my Radiums, but absolutely destroy them in both (i) skiability and (ii) tourability. Really no comparison.
glad they worked out nick. i can’t get my feet into radiums.
Is there a comparison between the quandrants vs. the Zzero green machines? I’m looking for another AT boot for my quiver, have the Zzero green machines and interested in BD quandrant and Dynafit Titans.
rando…in response to your question…the demo primes I had did not have the BOA liners…they had the older, manual style (pull it and cinch it) type of lace up liner. My 1st impression, now that you mention it, was that the cuff was lower than I was used to. As long as they keep that great heal pocket….I’m still loving them. Any gain on the progressive flex would be fine by me….but frankly, I’m still loving them as I demo’d them.
chuck…i think the quadrant is stiffer and has a nicer flex than the zero. it skis more like a titan…but lighter. slightly better touring characteristics than both.
Hey Steve,
I was wondering if the BSL on the Quadrant and Factor are the same in equal shell sizes. Meaning, do you have to adjust your dynafiddles if you take out a different pair of boots?
Thanks!
sam…same BLS…I’ve been swapping them out regularly.
[…] View the Original article […]
Hey Steve, any idea if rei is going to sell the primes? I see on their site that they have the quadrants.
My dividend check’s destiny is for some new at boots this fall.
I’ve been using mega rides for the past 4 seasons and they’re pretty shot. I’d also like to get into a burlier boot.
What’s your take on the quadrants for an everyday boot? I’d be using them to ski my head monsters with fritchis, volkl gotamas w/alpine bindings, and voile insanes w/dynafits(primary touring rig)- primes or quadrants- I weigh roughly 185-200 (with pack). Most of my tours are all day affairs-these days I spend most of my days touring- getting in around 50 or so days/season.
Thanks, Doug
doug…not sure about rei and the primes. i don’t see why not though. maybe the primes just haven’t arrived in the country yet?
i think the quadrant would be a great everyday boot (more than the prime) and burly enough to ski just about anything. i’m sure they are much stiffer than megarides, and the quadrants seem as stiff as the factors….but much lighter. they will fit wider than the megarides…fyi.
i really like the new bd boots and look forward to getting the right size for me this year.
Thanks Steve, – what about the walk/ski mode?- Did you have any issues while testing the quadrant with the locking mechanism?
Has BD redesigned this?
doug…no problems with the ski/walk mode. i think the only changes they made from the protos i had are some geometry and material changes on the buckles.
Steve,
You got me pumped to switch to a Titan with the Intuition liner putting it in the high seven pound range. Are you more psyched on the Quadrant than using the Titan? Does the Titan still win out on power?
Tyler
tyler…i think it is the other way around. the quadrant is more powerful than the titan…mainly because of a little more wrap with the cuff and rear spoiler. they are the same height though. fit might be your deciding factor…as titans fit narrower, while the quadrants have more volume. quadrants are probably a bit cheaper…not sure though.
Liked the review alot Steve
– though it left me with yet another two boot models to lie awake and dream of / choose from, as a new seasons of self-propelled joy approaches!
Considering upgrading to a pair of Dynafit Stoke (182cm)for the coming season, but wonder which boots to pair them with!?
Im 165lbs netto (195lbs fully packed), mostly skiing 4000 feet days in varied coastal conditions…
The choice seems to be between the Black Diamond Prime or Quadrant, the Scarpa Maestrale, the Dalbello Virus Lite and the "classic" Green Machines"; Dynafit Zzero 4-C.
The out-of-the-box fit of the Virus was amazing – unfortunately I never got the chance to try them on snow… Was told they lack foreward travel to match most other new AT-boots…
The green machines are kind of ok, but the Dynafits never seem to fit my relatively long shins, so when I finally get them to fit tight enough, the calf muscle takes quite a beating and have often cramped up when it most definitely shouldn’t have!
A boot with the high cuff of the Virus combined with the foreward travel promised from Black Diamond would be a hit – so; is the Prime the boot Im looking for?
Black Diamond state that the Prime should preferably not be used with skis wider than 105mm – but I guess the Prime & the Stoke, with its 106mm and fairly light weight @ 1650grams, should be an ok combo?
Cheers from a Scandinavian
scandinavian…will you be using an intuition liner? if yes…then definitely go with the primes. but they do run a little bit shorter in the cuff than the quadrants…so considering your comment about your longs shins…you might consider the quadrant instead. i don’t think the maestrale is what your looking for as it just doesn’t feel to me like it has much beef to it. its stiff and light…but not in a good way IMHO. i don’t know much about the virus…but i think they run narrow. no?
i’ve got two pairs of intuition liners that i’ve used in a variety of boots over the past 3-4 years. you might look into them since you have long shins and would probably really help with fit and performance…without a weight penalty.
As of yet Im not in intuitions no – but judging from comments from you and others I guess I ought to be, my lower legs considered…
– Seems to be why the Virus fit me so well; Dalbello have teamed up with Intuition to create their I.D. liner; http://www.dalbello.it/en-GB/technology/id_thermo/
Dalbello state that the Virus has a medium 100mm forefoot width – guess fit is mostly down to the liner then…
So despite the BOA adjustment system of the BD’s, again considering my being long-shancks, you’d still swap to an Intuition for the height as well as the fit?
(Wonder why BD stick to their own liners then, investing time and effort into the BOA construction…?)
Thought the stiffness in the Quadrant relative to the Prime was due to the use of a stiffer liner (and perhaps the magical 4th buckle…) rather than cuff height?
– have tried to find a cuff height comparison chart for various boot brands and models, but alas…
Scandi…I would say fit is mainly due to the shell, as you can pretty much compress liners as much as needed to get the fit right.
The BD liners are nice…and the BOA is a cool feature. I’m just saying the Prime’s liner is shorter than the Quadrant. I like wrap style liners a little better than tongue style because I fell they give a bit more padding on the shin and a more consistent feel around the lower leg. Intuition makes a few styles though…some with tongues, some wrap.
I think BD uses softer plastic in the Primes…so It’s more than just the liner affecting performance. I will investigate further though. I have found the Primes to be plenty powerful enough to drive all but the fattest and stiffest skis.
From the ski category manger at BD…
Yes, the Quadrant is a stiffer compound, hence the stiffer flex. That stiffer flex necessitates a stiffer liner to balance things out. Of which that liner ALSO contributes some of that added stiffness in combination with distributing that stiffness when the plastic shell is stiffer. (And of course, the 3.5 vs 4 does NOTHING in adding stiffness!)
Nice work Steve, much appreciate you using your contacts!
Haven’t seen Intuitions in the shops around here, but will sure try again when the shops gets this years boot models in – by mid-oktober at the latest I’ve been told…
So You dont find the wrap-style liners causing too much shin friction on the uphill then?
It seems touring models with Intuitions as stock liners use the toungue type, the Virus, the Maestrale…
Over-tightening the booster strap, to compensate from a bad calf / achilles fit of course, has often led to cramps and cold toes; no doubt, a snug fitting liner in a fairly high shell will be a hit with me –
So sure; if I can tour well with a wrap style Intuition liner in a Prime boot, I’m sure that set will match up to the relatively forgiving flex of the Dynafit Stoke ski!
– any final thoughts on that combo before I go ski-shopping?
scandi…a lot depend on the quality/stiffness of the liner. bd obviously puts a ot of effort into offering a top notch liner…and the addition of the boa lacing shows it. i’d give the stock liner a try on the quadrants before you went out a bought an intuition.
sounds like a great touring set up.
THanks for the review would you like to sell me these demos and get yourself some 26.5? You’d make my season!
Thanks,
Adam
I have a pair of the scarpa spirt 4’s and am looking to upgrade to a stiffer boot that is light and tours well. I am thinking either the scarpa mobe or the BD quadrant. which one is going to ski wsbetter? does the mobe boot sole hold up better than the quadrant? thanks
jason..i haven’t spent much time on the mobe. but i’ve been skiing the quadrant for over a year now and the sole is quite thick and has held up very well. it is also replaceable at a few different locations…including bd in slc and that dave page guy.. i have an intuition wrap liner in mine and they ski amazingly well and are very powerful. i have driven the biggest skis you can imagine with them. i think you would be happy with them.
I just purchased some Quadrants in a 25.5 I was going back and forth between the 25.5 and 26. Doing a shell fit and foot measurements the 25.5 is dead on. HOWEVER the liner seems super small, it’s almost like I need a 26 liner. I haven’t heated yet as I wanted to wear around the house to make sure they are the right size. Anyone else have this problem and will a proper boot fitter be able to fix this or should I be thinking about the 26? I have triple checked but it almost seems like they are the wrong size liners for the boots.
jeremy…the liners are coming in a little on the small side. BUT, they mold fine. i just fit a gal who was crammed into a liner, but the shell was right on. an oven works best for really making space, but a stack heater can also get the job done.
…i’ve the same problem, shell fit is good but not enough width in the liner for my big toe. I’m far from a ski shop and wondering if i could i heat mold the toe myself by making a “L” shape with 1.5″ pvc pipes to funnel hot air from a hair dryer directly to the toe box? If you don’t think that’s a good idea is there a recommended temp and time for placing the whole liner in the kitchen oven?
neonorchid…have you thought about baking them in your kitchen oven? could be sketchy with the blow dryer.
I read the following links and have a few quesetions:
http://www.alpinecarving.com/bootfitting.html#shin
http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_cooking.htm
First, are these Black Diamond liners the type which require 200º-250ºF for 12-15minutes in the oven?
Secondly, they instruct putting the liner on first, then your foot/liner in the shell. Seems like allot of trouble, why is that preferable to just inserting the liner into the boot shell first and then putting my foot in it? After all the only problem area is my big toe which will stretch the liner just the same in or out of the shell.
All of which brings up another question: If the black diamonds 26 shell is the same size as the 26.5, would it make more sense to place a order for the 26.5 to try them before cooking these?
To give you a idea of fit, my big toe hits the front and side of the liner. If i press hard on the top front of the liner, there is ~1/8"-1/4" of room between my 2nd and 3rd toe to the bottom seam of the liner/foot-bed, and my pinky toe is snug up where it should be.
I like the mew Black Diamonds and they seem to have the correct shell shape for my foot so i’m optimistic although still interested in trying the new AT models from Scarpa too. Already tried a few of the Salomon Quest line of which the 25.5 (what i measure), fit length/heal/ankle wise but squeezed both big and pinky toe (little toe went numb). Going up to a 26 Salomon Quest left a bit more room for my pinky toe, still constricted the big toe and was much too roomy for my ankle’s. Something which i’m a little concerned may end up being a problem if i cook the Black Diamond’s and the heel/ankle area packs in too much.
neonorchid…sounds about right as far as the heat goes, but be sure to have this done by a qualified shop if possible.
i think it’s easier to get your foot in the liner when it is out of the shell and avoid any wrinkles or weird stuff by putting your foot with toe-cap and footbed all wrapped up when the liner is in the shell.
yes…the 26.5 should give you a bit more room in the liner….but be the same shell size as the 26. it sounds like the 26 fits well though.
Thanks, i’m hoping they’ll workout for me.
Hey RS,
Great site, I’ve lurked for a long time and appreciate all the info.
I’m in a similar situation as Jeremy. I recently purchased a pair of BD Quadrant boots in a size 26.5. I had the liner thermo formed at a professional bootfitter – I had toecaps placed on my feet to provide a bit of extra space for comfort and warmth for touring. After having these formed and wearing them around the house for several days, the toe areas of the boots are still severely painful, to the point of bruising my toes if I leave them on for more than 20-30 minutes. I had them thermo’ed a second time with double toe caps and wore a thicker sock to create more space, but I continue to have severe toe pain. The problem is especially severe when mimicking the touring stride, as my toes slide slightly forward and cram against the liner.
Some background and more information:
I was shell fit for the 300MM shell (26/26.5) with a healthy 1.5 finger width and the shop tech and I determined this was the correct fit, as opposed to the 310MM shell, which was more than 2 fingers and my feet moved around in the liner in the 27 without thermo forming, especially within the boot shell. The heel pocket moved quite a bit as well.
I have worn 26.5 sized boots and near 295-305MM shells in Dynafit Zzeros, Scarpa Spirit, Factor, and Dalbello Virus and Krypton Pro (my alpine boot).
I wear a street shoe size 42.5 or US size 9 men’s in almost every shoe, so my sizing is consistent. Both feet are the same size within 5MM.
The 27 Boa liner from the Quadrant felt much more comfortable (unformed) in the toe area and heel pocket than the 26.5 liner even after it was formed. It seems to me the liner is oddly formed and does not stretch to form in the toe area. If I could get the 27 liner in the 26.5 shell, I think my problems with toe fit might be resolved.
I also tried the Intuition Pro ID liners 26.5 from Dalbello Krypton Pros in the Quadrant (similar to the Intuition Power Wrap). The toe area felt much more comfortable, but the heel area would not stay down and the liners were too low volume for the boot shell. This caused the liner to slip fore and aft in the shell and made toe “bang” worse than the Boa liner.
I reached out to BD customer service and am waiting to hear their reply, but thought I’d check in here as well as you’ve logged lots of real world hours on these – and we are close to if not the same size foot. What did you do for these to make them work? Any thoughts?
I could see putting Intuitions in and calling it a day, but after trying the Intuitions from my Dalbello’s it was clear they did not have nearly enough volume to make up the area between the shell and exterior liner to make this work. Maybe new 27 Intuition Power Wraps or Pro Tour Liners?
The heel and separation on BD’s Boa liner were very nice and created a lot of unrestricted travel since the tongue is open around the instep, but the toes of the liner are – ROUGH!!!
Wow!
BD responded back in less than 5 minutes and are sending 27 liners gratis! Props to their customer service. I’ll report back if anyone is interested to see if this solves the issue.
Mtnwriter…glad it worked out. its nice to see a company value customer service. props to bd.
I used the stock liner for about half of last season without issue. now I just use intuitions.
i love the boots. your website helped with all the research i did before purchase. excellent boots!!
glad to hear el jeje!
[…] (the next larger shell size) because I wanted some versatility with some other boots I own (mainly BD Quadrants, 26.5) and I run TLT Speed bindings on a few pairs of my skis, which have less adjustment range […]
Steve,
I’ve been skiing in my quadrants for about a month now. I love them! I got a size 27.5, molded ’em and am pretty happy. I am not sold on the liners and would like to put some intuitions in. If I have a 27.5, what size intuitions would I need? I have to order them online so cannot go to the local shop and try.
cheers,
Josh
josh…glad you like them. i’d go with size 10.
Hi Steve
I’m checking out for a new pair of boots for my set up (Gotamas with BARONS). I’m a resort skier who ski 60% out bounds and I’m starting to tour these year (by now just a few hikes for off piste).
I worry about the weight for a tour, but I love the performance o the skis and the barons. Please not that I jump from an old salomon equipeaxe ski with alpine binding to the goats. I couldn’t believe how easy I adapt to them and improve.
My next steep are the boots, my choices in order:
– quadrants cons: not how they works on a 105 mm underfoot skis. Pros: weight, they compensate the already heavy set up, best for mountaineering (I’m s serious climber too)
– Method: pros: performance, nice price!. Cons: weight
– Factor: you know, more weight
– Titan: expensive
– Zzeus: ???? not expensive, nice weight, performance??
Sincerely the true is that I live 1000 km from the mountains, so I don’t ski that much, i hope that through touring I will also ski/tour in summer holidays – patagonian Ice cap, 5000/6000 mts peaks, etc)
Please I need help!
Lisandro (from Argentina)
crocco…i think if you were worried about weight, there would be better ski and binding options that would help you shave grams. i mainly ski 115mm skis (bd justice) with the quadrants (and sometimes megawatts, 125mm) so there isn’t a problem driving bigger skis with them…especially with a nice intuition wrap liner to beef them up. i’d rather have the quadrants than the methods, so you can ditch that option. yeah, the factors are heavy, but i know a lot of people who tour in them and do fine, and you would probably like them the best for resort skiing. the titans would be a great choice as well.
i’d probably make the choice between the quadrant and the titan. both great performing boots and not too heavy.
Thanks a lot Steve.
I will go for the quadrants and when my budget allow it I´ll lighter touring set up for ski-mountaineering. My biggest doubt was about method and zzeus, you solved it!
Come and ski in the Andes!
steve, im trying to decide between the quadrant and the prime, it should replace my old zzero3´s. im 65kg/175cm and want to use it with an apache coomba oder BD kilowatt and dynafit tlt for skimountaineering only, not a freerider setup. would you say the prime is stiff enough or would you go with the quadrant for a stiff 95+ ski like the kilowatt?
they fit my feet very well. any suggestions for the “old” 09er kilowatt skis? did you ski em? cant decide wich one i should take, but i heard the edge grip of it is very good and the apache could be a bit to soft and wide for hardpacked snow. thanks in advance.
olsen…the tan kilowatts? i had a pair…they weren’t my favorite ski. they had a lot of pop…but you had to really drive them and keep them turning to keep them happy. i think the newer version had a bigger sweet spot and were more manageable…but i never had a pair.
i think unless you are really looking to shave grams or ounces, or have a nice wrap liner to put in the primes…go with the quadrants. a lot of the guides around here are rolling with the quadrant now and seem to be happy with the weight/performance combo. i think there are better lightweight boots out there than the prime.
thank you very much! i already guessed it would come out like that. =) will go for the quadrant and an apache coomba and hope the coomba is stiff and edge grippy enough on hardpacked snow.
mtnwriter: Did your 27 liner resolve the problem? I have exactly the same problem as you, the liner is way too small, but shell fit is perfect in the 26/26,5 shell. Even the 27 liner feels way too tight unbaked in the shop, but i guess the 27 liner will pack out enough when baked.
I picked up a pair of Quadrants last year 2010/2011 season, and I love them!
I’m a bit concerned about the longivity of the BOA system though.
andy…i think the BOA will hold up as long as you don’t over-crank it.
i’ve also been stoked on how my walk-mode range of motion mod is working out.
http://tetonat.staging.wpengine.com/2011/12/14/maximizing-walk-mode-rom-of-the-black-diamond-quadrant/